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Below, read the exclusive interview with Peter Maravelis of City Lights Bookstore, the most famous bookstore in the USA!

Can you tell us something about the history of City Lights Books, it’s been described as a literary landmark. Why?

City Lights was established by the poet, artist, and publisher Lawrence Ferlinghetti in 1953 together with his business partner Peter D Martin. Ferlinghetti had just arrived in San Francisco after world war two, having served as a naval commander in both Normandy and the Pacific Theater. He was one of the first Americans to walk on Nagasaki after the atomic bomb had been dropped. He’d seen war, first hand. This was to shape his politics and world view. Peter Martin had produced a cultural journal called City Lights and Ferlinghetti had contributed a translation of Jacques Prevert (of who’s work he had become acquainted while in Charbourg during the war.) So they were already aware of each other by the time Ferlinghetti arrived in SF. In a serendipitous meeting between the two, on a handshake and a $500 investment, they founded City Lights Pocket Book Shop. They both foresaw that post-war industry was opening up the way for affordable quality paper backs (a form of “high-tech” of their day) to reach an interested public. They framed the business as the very first “all-paperback bookstore” in the US making quality works available to the general public at affordable prices.

After the first couple of years, Peter Martin began feeling homesick and sold Ferlinghetti his share of City Lights and left San Francisco for the east coast where he was to found the New Yorker Bookstore. It’s interesting to note that Peter was the son of the newspaper editor, orator, and staunch anti-fascist Italian anarchist Carlos Tresca, who was gunned down on the streets of New York. The name City Lights was Martin’s nod to Charlie Chaplin’s film of the same name. Ferlinghetti was also enamored with Chaplin, so it made sense.

Upon taking over the business, Ferlinghetti founded City Lights publishing, to realize the dream he had of merging a bookstore with a publishing house. While in Paris at the end of the war Lawrence had met George Whitman who ran Mistral Books (later to morph into Shakespeare and Co. based upon the Sylvia Beach bookstore of the same name.) The friendship they formed was to influence Ferlinghetti’s ideas about literature, the arts, business, and politics. Lawrence was also impressed by the French pocket books of the day. They were handy and affordable to print and purchase. Lawrence wanted to produce something very similar. He was intrigued with the possibility of controlling both the means of production and distribution, which was a very appealing idea to him. It was common in Europe to see bookstores with built-in publishing operations. Hence, the emergence of the City Lights signature Pocket Poets Series. I think the first volume cost like 75 cents. Over the years we’ve expanded the line. Ten years ago, we began the SPOTLIGHT POETRY SERIES that takes off after the PPS, opening up the way for new voices, bridging the gap between east and west coast poets, and focussing on under-appreciated poets.

The Pocket Poets Series emerged at about the same time as the Beats were arriving in SF. But I think it’s important to note that Ferlinghetti’s vision extended much wider than the agenda of the Beats. So although we’re known as being the home of the Beat Generation, our agenda was grounded in world literature, art, music, philosophy, progressive politics, anti-colonialism, an appreciation and support of dissident voices. Of course the Beats offered a premium in dissident voices. Allen Ginsberg’s HOWL serving as the sine qua non of it’s day. And of course this is where our role in the freedom of speech battles of the McCarthy era come into play. Ferlinghetti and Shig Murao (City Lights first manager) both went to jail defending HOWL. The court case that ensued was to become a landmark in the freedom of speech battles of mid-century. What a lot of people don’t realize is that we actually went to court a couple of more times after HOWL. The second time was for publishing the San Francisco feminist poet Lenore Kandell’s Pillow Book in the early 60’s and the final time was for carrying Zap Comix. Ron Turner the publisher of Last Gasp (who published Zap, R. Crumb, and others) actually has been fighting cases up to the current day! Kind of crazy that censorship is still an issue.

So, we won all our court cases. The HOWL case opened up the way for Barney Rossett at Grove Press, James Laughlin at New Directions, and many other US publishers to bring into print works that had been previously banned in the US. Our place in the history of freedom of speech is significant.

At the heart of City Lights is Lawrence Ferlinghetti’s vision and desire to create a bookstore that could serve as a meeting place of the minds. A place of refuge for thinkers. A place people feel comfortable hanging out at. A bustling yet quiet place, that roars with the ongoing discussion held between the authors of different ages, political backgrounds, literary styles, and artistic influences. Lawrence wanted to create an environment where it was possible to hear dissident viewpoints.

Over the years we’ve hosted writers, artists, musicians, filmmakers, politicos of different persuasions, and visitors from all around the world. At the hearty of our mission is a kind of “literary diplomacy”. We’re a cultural hub where the arts all come together in an ongoing and generative discussion. In 2001 we received from the City of San Francisco our public landmark status. We are landmark #228 because of our “seminal role in the literary and cultural development of San Francisco and the nation, for stewarding and restoring City Lights Bookstore, for championing First Amendment protections, and for publishing and giving voice to writers and artists everywhere.” Now, We’re coming up on our 68th year of supporting the right to read, think, write, debate, and dissent, City Lights has come to symbolize the American spirit of intellectual inquiry.

In a business sense, there is a beautiful symbiosis between the bookstore and the publishing house. We sell more copies of Allen Ginsberg HOWL directly from the store, than from anywhere else. As a business model, it has proven beneficial as one hand washes the other. Cash cycles from one end of the operation to the other. In the age of covid this had become especially important for our survival.

And how about yourself, how long have you been with City Lights and what do you do?

I’ve been at City Lights since 1992. I’ve been in the book trade since 1987. The official title is events director. Together with a pretty kick-ass team of people (Stacey Lewis in City Lights Publishing, Chris Carosi our Social Media guru, and several of the store staff) we produce a monthly calendar, and periodically, a more ambitious array of symposia/festival/workshop style events. My job encompasses a myriad of functions. I act as conduit for an ongoing discussion among store management and staff in reviewing new material. Then, helping the decision making process along, we choose material that mirrors the values we represent. We’re unabashedly progressive. We’re interested in a challenging of cultural norms and take the position of a critical contrarianism. This shapes and informs the heart of our program. Then comes the ongoing communications with our partners in the trade and in the community. We’ve built relationships over the years with editors, authors, publishers, sales reps, community groups, and various creative partners. We cherry pick our events from the subjects we care about. We’ve never felt obligated to serve bestseller lists. When a decision is finally made by consensus, then comes the organizing and staging of the events. From inception to realization, an event can take anywhere from 4 months minimum to 2 years to develop. The more ambitious events can sometimes take longer and involve working closely with our different partners. Our last big event was called INSIDE THE MAGNETIC FIELDS and celebrated the 100th year anniversary of the emergence of surrealism. It ran for 3 weeks and took place at different venues across the Bay Area encompassing lectures, performances, film, and music. We collaborated with publishers, galleries and museums, cinemas, the embassies of different countries, guerrilla street performers, musicians, you name it. We even published a book for the occasion by the Chicago surrealist Penelope Rosemont. A lot of uncommon material rose to the surface for that event. We had events that focussed on women surrealists like Leonora Carrington, Penelope Rosemont, Simone Breton. A presentation on off-the-beaten-path gender bender fetish surrealist Pierre Molinier. A whole night exploring the work of George Bataille. Several nights of surrealist film. It was amazing. Such a great time!

How did you personally become involved with City Lights?

My introduction to City Light came in my teen years via music: the jazz and punk rock scenes. City Lights was a just down the street from Mabuhay Gardens, home of SF punk. In the other direction was Keystone Corner, the penultimate jazz club. In high school, we’d use City Lights as a kind of club house. We’d run down the street to Clown Alley ( a local burger joint) and get milkshakes we’d spike with rum. Then we’d hang out at City Lights while we waited for the clubs to open. A lot of bands used to also hang out at City Lights, you could get on the guest list just by getting to know people. I don’t think I ever paid to get into the Mabuhay. We’d either get on the guest list or help bands carry in equipment through the back door. You could see bands like Crime, The Nuns, The Avengers. We saw Devo there for the first time, when their sound was still wonderfully raunchy before Eno sanitized them. So I’d hang out in the stacks of City Lights reading Burroughs, Baudelaire, Neruda, JG Ballard, Paul Virilio, Kathy Acker, then pop over to Mabuhay to catch some band or other. I remember buying my first copy of the Artaud anthology at City Lights and having it thrashed at a Screamers show. I’ve treasured that tattered copy.

City Lights was also an outlet for important cultural publications. Search and Destroy from SF, Slash Magazine from LA, No Magazine, and others were something many of us looked forward to. City Lights also carried Ivy’s calendar, which was a local monthly list of counter cultural events. As there was no internet, this was how you discovered new cultural avenues back then. Rough Trade Records was just a couple of blocks away from City Lights in those days, so one could also check out the latest music coming from the UK and elsewhere all in one visit to North Beach.

The Keystone Korner was an equally amazing scene. It was not a very big club. You got to experience the artists up-close and personal. Got to see people like Dexter Gordon, Joe Henderson, Pharaoh Sanders, Ahamad Jamal, Art Blakey. You could feel the music against your body. William Burroughs made an amazing appearance there with the poet John Giorno. He had great comedic wit and timing. Mind-blowing performance for a teenager to attend. So the intersection between literature and music was experienced early on.

What made you decide to have Third Man Books Night at City Lights, we were pretty damn flattered, by the way.

We’ve been following Third Man for a number of years now. We really appreciate the way you bring music, literature, art, and technology together with a premium on American Roots culture and beyond. You too are a cultural hub of sorts. We can relate to that. We’re coming from a similar place. We think a lot about the origins of different kinds of literature, the history of the literary scenes around the country and the world. The intersection of where the arts meet. You do that very well: occupying a “cultural crossroad”. A lot is possible there. One can see it in the writers and musicians you bring into your orbit. The sidelines you create. The kind of media you produce. It’s all very compelling. A number of years back our director had had a chance meeting with Jack White without really knowing who he was. She had walked away impressed with his intelligence, savvy, sense of aesthetics. He’s obviously brought some really smart people into his orbit to pull off Third Man. We’ve always felt you were making some good choices in what you decided to publish. A really diverse, rootsy, and smart program. So, we’ve always looked forward to our collaborations and I also think that’s why they’ve always been so successful. People always walk away jazzed up.

The reaction to the performances and Q & A with writers Robert Gordon, Alison Mosshart, and Sheree Renée Thomas felt so positive and affirming, almost like a shared experience.. For those who haven’t attended a live reading, can you describe the experience and was there anything about this reading in particular?

It’s all about community.

We’ve connected to our audience. We all love what we’re doing. We love what we’re promoting. People can see that and it’s infectious. From the artists themselves and their writing and music to those of us that create the conduit for them to express themselves, it’s a genuine and heartfelt intention. When you love what you do, are true to it, obsessed with it, live and breathe it, it becomes apparent to everyone. People respond in kind. They know you’re doing what you should be doing. It’s very affirmative and inspiring.

That night, Robert, Alison, and Sheree, lived true to the ideals we’re talking about. Everything fell into place. It was personable, diverse, a high quality of work, and they possessed good intentions, all around. They are all very good storytellers, which makes a huge impact. It was obvious they treasure their craft. The connection between audience and performer can rely upon very simple things. Timing, the space between words, a subtle inflection in voice, an opening of the heart. But for the artist to get to that place, where they can utilize that simplicity, can take years of work. This was apparent that night. I can appreciate that. As I think the audience did.

What’s your take on books during the pandemic, and how has City Lights been navigating the pandemic?

Bookstores and publishing have all taken a huge hit these last few months. Some publishers are actually not doing that bad. But bookstores are in pretty dismal shape. Some bookstores report 80% drops in revenue. City Lights is no exception. Many of my colleagues in the trade are operating with skeleton crews. City Lights has managed to retain its staff and not cut salaries nor benefits throughout all of this. Through the hard work of our director Elaine Katzenberger, the number crunching and care to detail of our buyer Paul Yamazaki and our manager Andy Bellows, and the perseverance of our staff, we survived through to the fall. We had a pretty successful fundraiser back in spring that bought us some time. I think we’re all relieved at the results of this last election. Depending how the presidential transition goes, how covid levels fluctuate, we may be in for a rough winter. The quality of the material coming across our desks has not let up, of course. There was a lot in the works before the pandemic hit. So we’re seeing a lot of that material finally come down the pike. Not sure about next fall. Depending upon if publishers downsize, the backlog of print times and transportation delays, if the Dems generate another stimulus package, all of this could potentially affect the volume of new titles published. I feel for authors who’s work was slated for release just as the pandemic hit. What an awful thing to have happen to you. Worked your ass off producing a book to have all your marketing efforts dashed in front of your eyes. I think everyone is getting used to the virtual. Future marketing will go smoother, but I think we’re all already tired with zoom. Can’t wait to get back to the brick and mortar. If a vaccine is generated in the next year, we’re thinking…it may not be until 2022 or 2023 before we see live events again. Meanwhile, we’re working hard to survive and keep the place afloat. We’ll continue with our virtual programs. There is a new website in the works that will allow us to make all of our inventory available online. We are one of the few booksellers across the country that features a full line of academic press books. This has become a really important component of what we carry. We’re also working hard to keep the lines open with our audience.The public has played a huge role in our survival and will continue to do so. We’re really grateful to everyone for their support. It’s made a huge difference. We can feel the love.

What’s coming down the road for City Lights? What are some of your upcoming events and publications?

The proverbial pot is alway boiling around here, both in the bookstore and in publishing. Event-wise all kinds of cool stuff, from simple poetry readings by people like the great Ishmael Reed, a tribute to the late Diane di Prima, an event about Sun Ra, a symposium about the effect of emerging technologies upon culture called QUANTUM SF, discussions around issues of race with scholars like Jesse McCarthy, new fiction from authors like Daniel Moniz, an event with our friends at LOGIC magazine, a series of panel discussions around the work of the late entheogen pioneer Sasha Shulgin, and a bunch more.

As for the publishing house, we just published works by the awesome Pamela Sneed, poetry by Uche Nduka and Sophia Dhalin. A timely new book by Alan Hirsch about the history of presidential election crisis. More work coming from the estates of the late Diane di Prima and Michael McClure. In the new year we have works from the amazing Caribbean Fragoza, Sesshu Foster, Tim Wise on race relations, Todd Miller on border issues, a book by Jean Diave on Paul Celan. Some pretty awesome stuff. So as rough as things are at the moment, City Lights continues to survive.